Unlocking Vinyls

[Venom]

Bartek and me have had a discussion about unlocking vinyls, how important they are and how much they change the gamemode.

Do you think it would be better to use a system where you get a random vinyl using 1 task point (so if you have no luck you're screwed, most of the times you won't get the more complex vinyls that we offer), or a system where you unlock the vinyl that you actually want using 1 task point ?

Discuss

[bartekPL]

I already told you my opinion.
System where you're unlocking exact vinyl you want is totally bad.
We have it for accessories, body and performance parts and it's ok for them but not for vinyls.

With your idea you'll see every vinyl and you'll know look of each vinyl and where's fun having all best vinyls first day of playing? No fun and no sense, and also you'll see that only few kinds of vinyls are used, you'll see a lot simillar cars. In that case why not delete all shity vinyls then? They wil be used very rarely or even at all.
And the second problem is that if you'll see all available and locked vinyls, you'll know exact look of EVERY vinyl and after week or two you won't unlock vinyls anymore because you know that other vinyls are shity and you dont want them. The game will be too obvious, you'll know almost everything, no surprise. All what you will have to do will be unlocking new cars and earning RP for them. No more because you don't even have to look at tasks because you're doing them without any additionial focus.


With randoming vinyls while unlocking you don't see locked vinyls so you don't know how other vinyls looks. Typical player won't know as much and it'll be surprise everytime you're unlocking new vinyls.
I also compared randoming vinyls to skins in CSGO because you don't know what you'll drop from case, it always a surprise. and also vinyls are like skins but not for weapons but for cars.
I can also make randoming animation for vinyls like while opening case in CSGO for more emotions, no problem.

"I wan't a random vinyl (with low chance of special/body/unique vinyls) as a reward"
Lol what? I told you I want to balance chances to have same chance for every vinyl and only increase/reduce chance for some typical vinyls (you know what I mean )

You also don't have to waste your TP for vinyls. You can make daily tasks for them.
I presented you my suggestions to improve this randoming system
- From each daily tasks you will always get both - vinyl and cash but less amount OR increase chance to random vinyl from daily task than cash
- While randoming vinyl from TP you're getting 3 randomed vinyls and you're able to choose one you want to unlock


I don't want to waste time and script to make system from ur idea because Im sure in early future you'll see it was a wrong way and then we'll have a problem. Also, we dont have much time to make things like that now.
And as I said, because you're Team Member you know look of most vinyls and you exactly know whaich vinyls you want to unlock, but typical player doesn't know that thing and he'll always love with he have now because he doesn't know what else vinyls he can get. And if he'll see some imba vinyls on other player car he'll get motivation to unlock it, like with skins in CSGO

[Venom]

The problem is that you're treating our special vinyls too much as "a big surprise to players". It's kind of like taking body parts tuning, making them unlock at random and calling it a feature which will make players not bored. Honestly, I don't even know where is the idea of "I want to make my unique car I want, but I'm not allowed to unlock part of the required ingredients on my own" coming from, it's so limiting that the people who rely on using vinyls as one of main sources of making a car their own have less room to make unique creations, the creations that they want to make.

Now how does that make you bored of the gamemode instantly ? And like I told you already, I would have more fun driving my car with the vinyls which I want, instead of having no vinyls at all or having those which I don't like as much, I have never seen an NFS game locking vinyls from you this way either.

This type of system we have is like getting an unwanted present for Christmas. Yes, it's a surprise, but there's a high chance you will be disappointed, which is why most people buy presents, which they know that the reciever actually wants them to buy.
I know already that the second solution would kind of help this situation, but it's still too limiting considering we have so many vinyls available.

(This post was last modified: 01-01-2016, 01:21 by Venom.)

[bartekPL]

This type of system we have is like getting an unwanted present for Christmas. Yes, it's a surprise, but there's a high chance you will be disappointed, which is why most people buy presents, which they know that the reciever actually wants them to buy.

Nah.
You can except that u can get present for Xmas, but in most cases this present is bought by person who almost know what you can want.
Vinyls are not present but lottery. There's big diffrence between lottery, present and shop (buy exactly what you want).
Imagine that in ur town is organised lottery. You have to spend $1 to to take a part and its obvious that you have high chance to get something shity what you dont want and low chance to get something rly extra. Simillar situation is with opening cases in CSGO and with vinyls at NFSSA.
A lot of MMO games uses lottery system for it e.g. dropping items from bosses in the msot popular World of Warcraft.
If you want exactly what you want why dont you go to real shop and buy it? Take into account that on server you don't spend any money in Paint Shop!
You want to make everything too much simillar to real world but tell me, when NFS games were realistic? Never, maybe some the newest but not fully and they're too noobish for kids only.

And as I said we don't rly have time to experiment with that. We'd probably have to do second Beta Tests for it.


Let other player say something about it.

(This post was last modified: 01-01-2016, 01:47 by bartekPL.)

[Venom]

Well, but why should we replicate this kind of lottery system, or a drop system ? Old NFS games never had anything like this and this gamemode is based on them. And stop with the "realism" excuses, nobody is talking about realism here, so let it go away.

Let other player say something about it.

The only purpose of this topic is to get feedback from players.
Do they want a lottery system, just like ever goddamn MMO has and ruin the chances of getting the vinyls that they might want, or do they directly want to pick the vinyls they want ? Picking for players isn't freedom and I don't see any fun-breaking or any boredom in the second option.

EDIT: And of course this wouldn't be part of the current beta test, there's no way to implement it at this current time.

(This post was last modified: 01-01-2016, 02:35 by Venom.)

[bartekPL]

Do they want a lottery system, just like ever goddamn MMO has and ruin the chances of getting the vinyls that they might want,

So read again my suggestions in first post here.

EDIT: And of course this wouldn't be part of the current beta test, there's no way to implement it at this current time.

So we also can't do this for official release. It's too experimental and risky.


And also there's next problem with ur idea:you'll be able to see EVERY vinyl (over 150 atm.) and you'll be ablo to unlock exactly what you want. You can have the msot exclusive vinyls for nothing because you want to unlock them with 1 TP so it's very unfair because you can have the worst and the best vinyl for same price. You can say that with current system is also same price BUT it's lottery and you often unlocks vinyls in packs of few vinyls. And there's always surprise and you don't know what you unlocked.

Remember that this is only game and everything is about fun and IMO your idea breaks a lot of fun of randomizing vinyls, it reduces functionalites of server more to only unlock next cars and that's all, you have everything. So why not every car unlocked them? and you'll only have to have enough money.



And also, you're focusing mostly on special vinyls in this topic. These vinyls are SPECIAL whole paintjobs and we dont have them much and you want to unlock them instantly within first day of playing...
So where's place for events, for earning special and exclusive vinyls from them? Yep ur idea IMO breals it too.
With this you'll have every cool vinyl within less than a week and it'll be over with them, no more, u're done, maybe 1-2 vinyl per month and that's all. No any progression with that which is the most important.

[Venom]

I don't see "fun" in randomizing vinyls, it only pisses me off when I spend 15 task points on vinyls which I don't need. And I was talking about body, unique vinyls and special vinyls in general, I mentioned special vinyls because I don't know how else we should call the whole group of them.

The progression-breaking of my idea doesn't make any sense either after what I said, because vinyls don't give any advantages, they are simple visuals that have nothing to do with progression. Basically you can do the same with body parts, you can unlock only the body parts you want and keep them forever without touching any other ones and there's no problem with that. And guess what ? There's no progression in that whatsoever. You're talking as if this is a brand new idea, when in fact we have this already with body parts and it works very well.

And yes, I read the solutions and in my last post I already said which seems the most fair, but still limiting. What we can do is make body/unique/special vinyls worth 2, or even 3 task points, if you think that would be more fair.

(This post was last modified: 01-01-2016, 04:10 by Venom.)

[bartekPL]

The
progression-breaking of my idea doesn't make any sense either after
what I said, because vinyls don't give any advantages, they are simple
visuals that have nothing to do with progression. Basically you can do
the same with body parts, you can unlock only the body parts you want
and keep them forever without touching any other ones and there's no
problem with that. And guess what ? There's no progression in that
whatsoever. You're talking as if this is a brand new idea, when in fact
we have this already with body parts and it works very well.

Nope,
u're wrong. Trust me or not but for a lot of players visual look
(vinyls, skins) is 2nd the most important thing. I'm playing a lot of
multiplayer games, MMO, MOBA and I know what i say.
With other parts
it s a bit different. Accessories parts u're unlocking with cards as a
huge packs because the're very simillar. With body parts it's ok because
we don't have many parts in fact and some cars have other body pats,
some extra parts etc. different set. With performance parts you
unlocking them progressively with RP. So why don't make different for
vinyls especially you don't spend any money in paint Shop comparing to other shops?

I
don't see "fun" in randomizing vinyls, it only pisses me off when I
spend 15 task points on vinyls which I don't need. And I was talking
about body, unique vinyls and special vinyls in general, I mentioned
special vinyls because I don't know how else we should call the whole
group of them.

[...]

And yes, I read the solutions and in my last post I already said which
seems the most fair, but still limiting. What we can do is make
body/unique/special vinyls worth 2, or even 3 task points, if you think
that would be more fair.

Waiit, what? Now you want to make unlocking vinyls for even 2 or 3 TP?!
Look
again at tasks system. atm we have about 40-50 and even if we add more
in future there's still limited amount of TaskPoints.
And you don't
have to spend all your TaskPoints only for vinyls lol, it's even stupid
because u've limited TP and ther're other things to unlock with TP. You
don't have to spend any TP for vinyls (read again my idea for daily
tasks in my first post here).
And we already talked about wasting most TP for money/vinyls few months ago....

Well, but why should we replicate this kind of lottery system, or a drop system ? Old NFS games never had anything like this and this gamemode is based on them. And stop with the "realism" excuses, nobody is talking about realism here, so let it go away.

But you don't look at one important thing. Old NFS was singleplayer games and NFSSA is multiplayer and it's impossible to make all like in these games. We must take something from other multiplayers games (not necessarily from other NFS) to make good system.

[Venom]

I didn't say vinyls aren't important, I said they shouldn't be so randomly given to you. And if you say they are 2nd most important thing to players then why do you make them waste many TP's on them ? Doesn't make any sense, there's so much to unlock using TP's, not only just vinyls.

We should have the vinyls which we choose ourselves, that would be the major improvement, it doesn't matter how much you limit that feature (e.g. set cash prices to vinyls, more TP's for the exclusive vinyls, etc..), all that can fix the "so easy to get" problem.

You misunderstood about the 2/3 TP's I said. I was talking about balance problem between exclusive vinyls and regular vinyls so why are you now throwing it away ?

And you don't have to spend all your TaskPoints only for vinyls lol, it's even stupid

Do you actually know what you want ? First you say vinyls are important, then you say we shouldn't spend our TP's on lottery to get vinyls which we want.. Thats so ironical that I don't honestly know if this is a joke or not.

The daily task solution doesn't solve this either. Yes, we need to get inspiration from other MMO games, but not an exact copy of lottery system from some MMO games.

[Spotlight]

Actually i agree with Bartek. I kinda like this system. Body customization, and visual customization is a different thing. I don't really wanna see everyone having the same vinyl in a race, it would be even boring.